Curse

Operative 14 · Jul 19, 2007, 07:00 AM // 07:00

I'm not quite sure that this thread is about the new Party Search addition anymore. I think it's the entire party search issue coming to a head after quietly simmering in the background for the past year or so since its inception. Mostly the frustration of limited text space, and the fact that Arenanet didn't do anything about it. And, to my knowledge, never even acknowledged it until everyone here exploded about being forced to use it yesterday. And, becuase of that, it's also turned into a thread aimed at expressing how discontented people feel about a lack of apperant communication about new features, and what players really want vs. what Arenanet thinks we want.

That's just my take on it though

TideSwayer · Jul 19, 2007, 07:47 AM // 07:47

Now not only do we get less space in the Party Search window message box, but if we use the most common Buy/Sell phrases WTB and WTS we get less space in the trading channel too. Now "Buying..." and "Selling..." is taking the place of the crippled "WTB" and "WTS".

Ludicrous. Love the idea. Absolutely hate the implementation, even moreso than before. They actually made trading WORSE.

Gawa · Jul 19, 2007, 08:05 AM // 08:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Gaile. Forcing people to use it doesnt work, especially when its so limited.
If you want people to use party search, make it USABLE.
Come on. This is bullshit and you know it.

*sigh* Sorry, Lyra, there were so many posts with rude comments in them in this thread that i just picked yours at random to reply to :P

Gaile and ANet are not forcing people to use party search. It is useable. People just need to learn how to use it.

Things are rarely perfect. We know there are limitations within which we play the game, and indeed the devs and Gaile even work within certain limitations. That is life; I tend to find it more useful when people get on with it and work with it rather than against it. Constructive critisisim is useful, swearing and ranting saying things like, "retarded" "stupid" "bullshit" "worthless piece of crap", "lack of braincells of some "developers" from anet is starting to p#ss me off", arent useful, and in fact are insults and flames.

Traders can simply type anything other than 'wts' if they want more chars to describe their wares. They can use trade and party search if they wish.

That being said, remember that sellers need buyers... and buyers (unless they are just window shopping for a bargain) tend to be looking for something specific.
So if i am looking for a max axe or a +30hp shield mod etc.. i can simply look at party search for any text along those lines... 30 chars is plenty for that.
It helps the buyer out.. which in turn helps the seller out.

This update will mean that i will actually be buying from sellers (so more business for the traders), which i rarely did before because i would rather go and farm an item than put up with the trade spam.

Gaile and ANet are giving us more options and attempting to make party search more useful for a number of factors, not just trading.

I am seeing many more pugs being formed quicker and easier with less chat spam now. Over time more and more people will get in the habit of looking at party search before typing looking for a group, i know i am.

We can see the makeup of said groups - it tells location, and class loadout of the group, so that doesnt need to go in text.

I urge people to give it some time to settle in, work with the system, and see how it goes, then give some constructive critisim. We know that ANet listens to us, but i suggest that we make their visits to our boards here a more pleasant experience rather than one they may come to resent. That is simply common sense.

We also know that ANet do look to us for comments on the updates... appreciate that fact a moment.. and know that if we can show that something can be tweaked in a better way...that that actually does get listened to, sometimes very quickly. So i have confidence that if we can show that party search can be better tweaked, and if it is possible..then ANet will do its best to do so.

Of course we can say we dont like something, just dont do it in such an agressive manner, and do suggest alternatives that are feasable. Remember we are the ones that want listened to. Would you want to listen to a bunch of people rant on, some quite rudely? There are some good posts amongst this thread, the problem is that the poor posts can tend to mask those constructive posts. It would be best for us all if the constructive posts outweiged the poorly thought out posts.

EDIT- heh.. i just read, on the update thread, a reply from Gail addressing concerns already. Ive quoted the parts relevant to this thread re party search. Gail's full post is found here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Hey, guys,

I've relayed your comments about the text limitations in the Party Search / Trade window to the programmers who work on the game interface and they're going to take a stab at making some changes.
There are text limitations, and some of them need to stay, but the idea they're working with might address that limitation very nicely. We know this is an important issue to you, and it'll be given key attention and will hopefully be changed soon.

The interface changes that I've seen remarked about most are the change to the party window, so that you can't extend and compress it, and the placement of the different windows. (And, sometimes, those sub-windows being resized.) We will be sure to point to this thread in the Community Summary, so that the designers can read your input on the changes. Clear, concise, I like this, I don't care for this and would suggest [this alternative] is very appreciated, as it allows the designers to read through quickly and really see the crux of your comments.

...thanks for... constructive comments and suggestions!

Operative 14 · Jul 19, 2007, 08:42 AM // 08:42

Here's one thing I noticed while fooling about with party search this evening, and it will probably sound pretty stupid to a lot of you

! When you mouse over a message in the party window, it comes up with more information. Who the person is, what their message is, where they are, basically all the stuff it shows in the main window. How about if you typed in Trade chat;

"WTS Sundering Crystaline Sword of Fortitude, 15%^50, 20/20, +30, Req. 9, 100k+177 ectos" or whatever. That appears in normal trade chat, then in party search, it shows up as "WTS Sundering Crystaline Sword..." (observing the thirty character limit). Then when you mouse over it, it shows the entire ad. Those interested in a Sword of that manner could mouse over it for more information, those more interested in... I don't know, let's say beer could ignore it and look for another ad more applicable to their tastes.

Burning Blade · Jul 19, 2007, 08:42 AM // 08:42

enough said about the limitation of the the PS by everyone. I just want to add my 2c on how I have been using it
- PS is very useful now for item that needs short description like "WTS Dwayna's Grace 20K".
- For longer description items, WT S or W T S are what needed. Sorry Arnet you make us do so.

And oh the last thing I too don't buy it when Gaile said increasing char limit in PS is IMPOSSIBLE. Hard or time consuming is a more reasonable explaination to easily avoid customers from being upset.

Fying · Jul 19, 2007, 10:22 AM // 10:22

I don't understand why ppl still keep spamming >>SHORT<< lines typing W T S to avoid the party search. Whats so bad about this systems that puts youre WTS line in the party search.

I really love the sytem. If i need some kind of mod i post i type it once and within a few minutes i have a pm from a seller! Before this update i had to spam for hours to get a non rare mod and my eyes got red from staring to the chat lines.

Give me 1 reason not to add youre item buy/sell line in the party search. Its clear that the line is too short if you want to add more item information. But thats the only reason i can think off. The advantages of the system are:

- you don't have to spam!
- youre WTS line is displayed in all districts
- you don't have to stare at the chat for hours to find youre item
- there is no extra work for adding a line to the party search
- you can instandly add ppl to youre party if they are interested in sell/buying even if they arent in the same district.

SilentAssassin · Jul 19, 2007, 12:32 PM // 12:32

I did some research if you can call it like that, lol

I asked ppl who like the system to type 1, else 2

I got:

1: 395

2: 56

1 and 2 (yes some ppl who just said they want more space): 42

Clear enough for me :-)

good job Anet

(I just did this ingame in lions arch - kamadan)

Kook~NBK~ · Jul 19, 2007, 03:08 PM // 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fying

I don't understand why ppl still keep spamming >>SHORT<< lines typing W T S to avoid the party search.

Makes no sense to me, either.

Quote:

I really love the sytem. If i need some kind of mod i post i type it once and within a few minutes i have a pm from a seller! Before this update i had to spam for hours to get a non rare mod and my eyes got red from staring to the chat lines.

The good thing about this update is that it got more people using PS, and the people who never looked at it before because there was never anything in there are looking now.

Quote:

Give me 1 reason not to add youre item buy/sell line in the party search. Its clear that the line is too short if you want to add more item information. But thats the only reason i can think off. The advantages of the system are:

Because I've already got an item for sale posted in the window. That's it. Big deal, bypass the filter when selling other items and that's not a problem.

GodofAcid · Jul 19, 2007, 03:12 PM // 15:12

Alright, let's cut to the chase. My argument here isn't who thinks this is a good thing, who thinks this is a bad thing. My argument is simple: When people are using the trade system as intended, not being disruptive or bothersome to the general community, they don't like being forced to change the way they sell. You can include me in that. This is an issue of force, and I don't think that's right, period.

Pick your battles. If people aren't being a bother, leave them alone. Save your powers for when a situation requires you to intervene. I think that's what the devs should be focused on.

ValaOfTheFens · Jul 19, 2007, 04:30 PM // 16:30

There are a number of issues that warrant comments.

First, the changes to trade chat haven't made a lick of difference. People have been using the Party Search, ineffectual or no, to buy and sell as well as spam Local and Trade chat. I don't know if ANet assumed PS would cut down on spamming but it hasn't and never will.

I think people are misunderstanding what Gaile meant when she said that changing the character limit was impossible. There's very little thats truly impossible to achieve with code. But with restraints on time and budget alot of things become impossible. I'm sure if we all paid a monthly fee ANet could hire a whole nother team of designers, dedicated to implementing stuff like an auction house and an increased character limit. But we don't and so what changes we get are entirely dependent on the budget alloted to GW and whatever time the design team has.

What's needed is some sort of trade system similar to Pokemon's GTS. You could post your item, name your price, and walk away. There'd be a window where you could keep track of what you were trading/buying/selling and who you did business with. This way there's be no scamming(let's not forget the Mursaat token debacle...) and everyone gets what they want.

A system like this would probably be cheaper and easier to implement than an auction house. People would make less money but so what. *lol*

GodofAcid · Jul 19, 2007, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by ValaOfTheFens

What's needed is some sort of trade system similar to Pokemon's GTS. You could post your item, name your price, and walk away. There'd be a window where you could keep track of what you were trading/buying/selling and who you did business with. This way there's be no scamming(let's not forget the Mursaat token debacle...) and everyone gets what they want.

A system like this would probably be cheaper and easier to implement than an auction house. People would make less money but so what. *lol*

Maplestory has a system like that. Conquer Online has a system like that. Knight Online (trust me, never play that game) has a system like that. I also wonder why GW doesn't institute this kind of system. It doesn't seem like it would require near the level of work of an auction house, and while I'm sure some would be upset that it's not the perfect system, it would be alot better than what we have now. Perhaps that perfect system will take a long time to create, but in the mean time, we really do need something better than this. Instituting a short term improvement would probably be enough to hold most people over until a better long term improvement is feasible.

Operative 14 · Jul 19, 2007, 07:34 PM // 19:34

Fying, Kook~NBK~, Did you guys read any of the preceding posts at all? This entire thread has explained this numerous, dare I say, lots, of times.

Here is an example of why I would do it;

W T S= "W T S Sundering Crystaline Sword of Fortitude, 15-22 req. 9, 20/20, 15%^50, +30 PM OFFERS!!!"

WTS= "Party Search- Sundering Crystaline Sword of "

It cuts off the message in both normal Trade Chat (which is my main beef with it) and in Party Search. There isn't even enough room to type out the entire name of many items. WTS works great for small, named items that don't require explanation. For instance a Book of Secrets for 20k, or a Dwayna's Grace for 30k. But if you're trying to sell a Weapon, including some greens, there isn't enough space to type out the name, let alone include the neccesary information to attract buyers (I.E. Price and mods).

What's ironic about this is that I don't trade very much, yet I'm still advocating for it.

TheYellowKid · Jul 19, 2007, 07:40 PM // 19:40

i like the idea of the party search thing, but the implementation is lacking, the fact is tons of sellers dont use it anyway so you still have to be swamped in spam in dist 1.

Limited text is obviously an issue but on top of that searching through it is quite a pain, if they can put them into categories automatically how about a new category (well 2) called Selling and Buying, that way you can minimise the other areas and just focus on the part your interested in.

Cross district trading would be nice aswell, as atm many people dont accept invitations, so you end up having to change district and find them anyway. Maybe is not possible with the way the system is set up considering you have to touch someone to trade, but would make the whole system a lot better imo.

Party Search -, is horrible and should be removed do we really need to know that it has been added to the party window?

Fying · Jul 19, 2007, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Operative 14

Fying, Kook~NBK~, Did you guys read any of the preceding posts at all? This entire thread has explained this numerous, dare I say, lots, of times.

I think you didn't read my post carefully;

Quote:

I don't understand why ppl still keep spamming >>SHORT<< lines.....

I see ppl spamming lines like this:

w.t.s normal rit tomes
W TS +30hp scyte mod
W T B E C T O S

WHy o why don't they want to have those lines in the party search?! I really don't get that.

If you need to give move information, stats etc., i do understand that you wont use party search for obvious reasons(also said this in my previous post...). Some ppl feel they are forced to use party search now but noone forces you to do anything. Party search is to make trading ALOT easier but if you don't want to use it then use the spaces and dots to avoid the filter and nothing changed to what it was before.

Croco Clouds · Jul 19, 2007, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Hey, they really should add two lines per message (in party search). Can't see a thing inside the box. We'll have trouble selling minipet or gold weapon.

Add two more lines will enhance our grammar/spelling writing skill rather than showing chicken sausage in the public

Kook~NBK~ · Jul 19, 2007, 10:14 PM // 22:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Operative 14

Fying, Kook~NBK~, Did you guys read any of the preceding posts at all? This entire thread has explained this numerous, dare I say, lots, of times.

Here is an example of why I would do it;

W T S= "W T S Sundering Crystaline Sword of Fortitude, 15-22 req. 9, 20/20, 15%^50, +30 PM OFFERS!!!"

WTS= "Party Search- Sundering Crystaline Sword of "

This is not what was being discussed in my post. The discussion was about short messages, like the ones you mentioned here:

Quote:

WTS works great for small, named items that don't require explanation. For instance a Book of Secrets for 20k, or a Dwayna's Grace for 30k.

I've been saying the exact same thing here (look at page 1 or 2 of this thread) and in other threads about the PS window (before the update).

assassin_of_ni · Jul 19, 2007, 10:23 PM // 22:23

well imma skip reading all the pages but i dunno what the OP's beef is with an update that had absolutely negative in it....a few bug patches the party search thing and now additional spamming for everyone in trade chat. its not a solution to the trade problem but it is an added bonus. seriously though a huuuuuuuge huuuuuuuuuuuge update which ide assume would take very minimal amount of time and work from a-net would just be increased text length in party search, or being able to post several times (of course make a cap of 3-5 or so just so you dont see: )

spammer1- WTS USELESS JUNK 100k +200 Ectos
spammer1- WTS USELESS JUNK 100k +200 Ectos
spammer1- WTS USELESS JUNK 100k +200 Ectos
spammer1- WTS USELESS JUNK 100k +200 Ectos
spammer2-WTS Something decent 40k
spammer1- WTS USELESS JUNK 100k +200 Ectos
spammer1- WTS USELESS JUNK 100k +200 Ectos
spammer1- WTS USELESS JUNK 100k +200 Ectos
spammer1- WTS USELESS JUNK 100k +200 Ectos

Operative 14 · Jul 20, 2007, 01:25 AM // 01:25

Quote:

I don't understand why ppl still keep spamming >>SHORT<< lines typing W T S to avoid the party search. Whats so bad about this systems that puts youre WTS line in the party search.

Ah, okay. Very sorry Fying and Kook~NBK~, I misunderstood what that meant

. Yeah, now that you mention it, that doesn't make any sense. The only thing I can come up with is that they are trying to get rid of the "Party Search-" tag to make it easier for indistrict scanners

Chthon · Jul 20, 2007, 03:21 AM // 03:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_groovy

I don't know which thread get's more attention so I'll post this in my thread and in this one. Although the flaming is pretty hot in hur. :P

Ok I was thinking how we could solve the Char limit and came up with the following idea. Since all items in game are made out of a weapons skin, dam modifier, req, and 2 "magical" components. Can't we make the party search work like the template system? You can get a couple of pull down boxes:

WTB
WTS
WTT

Gold Weapon
Purple Weapon
Blue Weapon
Green Weapon
Weapon Mod

SHIELD
SWORD
AXE
BOW
SCYTHE
SPEAR
DAGGERS
WAND
FOCI
STAFF

15^50
15^Stance
15^enchanted
15 etc

REQ 8
REQ 9
REQ 10
REQ 11

Vamparic
Zealous
Icy
Firy
Ebon
Sundering 20/20
Sundering 19/20
etc

Health +30
Health +29
Armor +5
etc

These would then create a template code, which can be put in Party Search.

Second thought, There is already a system to make pvp items. Why not convert that with skins to party search. Or have a weapon code extractor.
Which reads out the characateristics of an item and puts the template code in to party search. There is allways away to make limits work

I think I suggested something like this elsewhere. The only problem would be for potential buyers to recognize templates worth looking into. Of course, that could be solved by having the viewer's client unpack the template and construct a formulaic string out of it for display purposes. (ie Potential seller creates template "12345" via the dropdowns, server receives and retransmits "Template:12345," potential buyers' clients see "Template:12345" and display "WTS: Icy Fellblade (15^50, req 11, not inscr) of Defense (+4) - 3k - OBO.")

Another option, if we can't increase the field length, is to increase the alphabet's character depth. Ideally, there could be mouse-over-able characters that would display the full stats for an item. Then your message could be as simple as "WTS: <symbol>." Barring that, we'd still be a hell of a lot better off than we are now if we had some 1-character symbols for weapon types (sword, axe etc), and some common mods.

Kate Soulguard · Jul 20, 2007, 05:00 AM // 05:00

I'm alright with making the party search box a pre-defined size if it makes it easier for the programmers to write up a fix for wrapping text inside of each expandable section.